Well, he did call Kanye a jackass. Maybe he just likes Taylor Swift?

Nah, come on… even Internet Hitler hates Kanye West.

spazmo’s comment is indistinguishable from the e-mail forwards from redneck relatives that clutter my spam box.

/just sayin

I send left wing dribble shit to all my Palin praising relatives.

Goatboy, you’re reminding me of situations where I would point out that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and people would say that it was an unAmerican statement.

Truth isn’t always politically correct. Racism is a blight on our nation, and until we can discuss it frankly without fear of being called a redneck or racist, we’re not going to get any farther than we are now.

Kids on bus : police department :: analogy : fail

That’s not the analogy I’m making. I’m demonstrating that when the victim is white, the hate crime aspect isn’t discussed. We have social and media mechanisms to sensationalize and distort one type of hate crime and others are either buried or the victim is portrayed as the villain. The way it gets played out depends on the color of the victim’s skin.

In the case of Jena 6, those guilty of a violent crime are even portrayed as civil rights heros (as in the video for the above-mentioned Mellencamp song in which Dr. King’s image makes an appearance).

It’s not discussed in polite liberal society, because people are afraid of being called rednecks.

"We have social and media mechanisms to sensationalize and distort one type of hate crime and others are either buried or the victim is portrayed as the villain. The way it gets played out depends on the color of the victim’s skin."

It’s not skin color tat determines it. It’s minority status vs. dominant culture. Sorry, I’ve got little patience for “us poor white folks” carping.

It’s minority status vs. dominant culture.

So if you use that language, then it’s ok to brutalize the member of one group as opposed to another? Besides, those groups were originally established by a focus on skin color.

This isn’t us poor white folks carping at all. I’ll give you another situation that’s similar:

When Samanth Runnion (a white, middle-class girl) disappeared in 2002, there was a media frenzy. At the same time, other little girls (non-white, poor families) were disappearing as well, they were given no media attention at all.

Samantha was the perfect face for a media product involving an innocent girl from a “good family” (read: white) who’s been whisked off by a sinister force. It’s straight from the Brothers Grimm.

African American girls don’t fit the stereotype of a princess, hence all the hype coming up about Disney’s new release of The Princess and the Frog which has an African-American princess. And white people don’t fit the stereotpye as a victim of a race beating due to the social mechanisms created to curb the violence against African Americans.

We’re working hard to change some stereotypes, but often the most insidious ones are the ones we’re not allowed to address in polite society (such as hate crimes against whites). Thus the “redneck” term (the ultimate in exlusionary name-calling among liberals).

It may seem kind of high-minded and blase of me to saying this as an “all stereotypes are bad” sentiment, but that’s not my point - my point is that we as liberals by definition should be more open to social/media criticism of different sorts, especially those aimed at perceived social injustice. As I mentioned in a previous thread, I think that liberals are very lacking in analytical skills when it comes to racial issues. Race is a heated topic, and I’m sympathetic to that, but it’s no excuse. We should be the ones to address the truth, not just when it paints an unflattering picture of the usual suspects.

Current reports say that the attack wasn’t racially motivated.

I’m just going to be eating my pancakes, however. I like them with blueberries in them, Spazmo likes them with pecans. But oh I do so like the blueberries.

Current reports say that the attack wasn’t racially motivated.

Either way, my comments still stand.

And I do love pecan pancakes.

Let\’s not get distracted by side issues people. Focus. In addition to the President himself, who in the Obama administration knew Kanye West was a jackass and when did they know it? I want answers!

Dude, nobody called you a redneck. But I swear, if I wade through the spam folder I can find a forward from one that is well-nigh indistinguishable from your complaint. I’m not going to deny that black folks beat up white folks sometimes but I do deny that it is as socially significant as a white cop luring an uppity professor outside so that he can be properly punished for his tantrum and shown who is boss.

You can be racist if you’re in the minority, but rising to the level of hate crime is difficult. I know it’s contrarian conservative conventional wisdom that there’s no such thing, but I’m not willing to call a swastika on a synagogue or a burning cross on a lawn simple vandalism. Unless you can make a case that those schoolkids on that bus were trying to intimidate all the white kids out of the community with their actions, it’s simply not a hate crime. Please don’t act like I’m arguing that black on white assault is groovy. It’s disingenuous of you at the least.

Dude, nobody called you a redneck.

I realize that. Honestly, I wasn’t offended or bothered and I don’t mean to mischaracterize your statement. Also, I wasn’t suggesting you thought that a racial assault on a white person was “groovy” either. I was just using your term “redneck” as an example of a commonly used name (along with “racist") to shut down a white person who is analyzing a situation involving race and stepping out of line when it comes to the white guilt and the one-note assumption that if there’s a problem between a person with dark skin and a person with light skin, that it’s the fault of the person with light skin who’s obviously a racist. This isn’t aimed at you, I’m describing a tendency that I see in the media and among a lot of folks who otherwise remind me a lot of myself.

Also, I’m kind of spoiled. My folks are from the 60s and very open minded and I live on the east coast surrounded by scientists from all over the world, so I have a sort of ivory-tower perspective where I’m more annoyed by my fellow lefties than rednecks, who I rarely see.

If I had to hear right-wingers babbling (in my inbox or otherwise), I’d probably get up in arms pretty fast if I heard anyone saying something that sounded similar. There’s one wingnut in my office that said a bunch of bullshit about Obama’s healthcare plan that had me fighting-mad for over a week.

However, I think that the situation with professor Gates is, I think, a lot more complicated than you’re describing it to be. That sort of Jello Biafra-inspired language you’re using that portrays America as a racist, redneck, borderline military state has its place, but that place isn’t every situation involving a white cop and a black citizen. It’s not hard to alter that situation to fit the stereotype of the bad white cop coming down on the “uppity” black professor, but just because that stereotype is close enough, doesn’t mean it’s the truth.

Could it be true that that situation betrays our own bigotry that we think a person with an education is above racism, above being investigated for a crime and acting like a flaming jerk? Using Occam’s razor we’d first deduce that the cop acted like an asshole because he’s an asshole and has to deal with people being assholes to him all day. The first time skin color came up in the situation was when it was mentioned by Gates. It just seems abit hysterical to me that people jump to the conclusion that something socially significant and evil occurs when people with two different skin tones are in conflict, and it seems to be hypocritical that they think that they’re not being racist by doing so.

Liberals (myself included) were all up in arms about racial profiling in airports after 9-11, yet we’re more than happy to do the same thing in social incidents. Why don’t we recognize it as hypocrisy?

I don’t think that racism can work for America, even if it’s leveled against the “right” kinds of people. Race is a social construct (in the UK people with red hair are discriminated against), and it hurts too many people to try and use it for so-called good purposes.

You can be racist if you’re in the minority, but rising to the level of hate crime is difficult.

See, that’s bizarre to me. It seems like having a different set of rules for different people based on skin color which is what got us in to this whole mess to begin with.

Nothing at all against the midwest, but I think our different views may have something to do with where we live. I live in a very “racially” mixed region of the country. I work on a team of 12 people, five of whom are African American, two are Asian and all have graduate degrees and are making at least 70k per year. So, the whole idea that a persons skin color should determine the rules that apply to their behavior seems weird and a bit frightening to me.

I don’t think that’s what you’re suggesting, and I’m not suggesting you’re a racist or think the way I’m describing personally (though we’ve been kind of addressing each other in this thread). I think you’re a hilarious, brilliant cool guy, I’m just addressing the tendency that people have on the left to fall into established, comfortable stereotypes about other people that can be just as hurtful as the racism these sterotypes are supposedly countering.

A black co-worker was all bent out of shape one day for a (deserved) disciplinary action taken against him by a department head. I told him, “Suck up like a man dude, you fucked up and now you got to deal with it.”

He went off on every white guy, especially me, is racist asshole tirade, to which I replied, “Of course I am, everybody is, including yourself. What matters is whether or not we recognize our bias, and how we deal with it.”

The guy was totally speechless for about a minute, them mumbled an apology, and things were back to normal.

I think even the most liberal of us have some racial, as well as social, bias about those who are different from ourselves. Those who step above it and judge individuals rather than groups stand the best chance of accepting people as equal.

But what do I know?

I’m not going to deny that black folks beat up white folks sometimes but I do deny that it is as socially significant as a white cop luring an uppity professor outside so that he can be properly punished for his tantrum and shown who is boss.

You picked an extremely poor example which I suggest has no meaningful social significance whatsoever.  The incident with the professor had nothing to do with race except the professor wanted it to be about race. Period.  There are enough dirty racist cops around, this cop, based on the reported details, was not one.

There is also an important distinction between what society or its members might consider to be socially significant versus the law and criminal actions.

There is the recent under reported incident of a white teen with a black girlfriend being beaten in an organised premeditated way by a group of black youths because he was dating a black girl from their neighbourhood.  The police in that case have refused to treat it as a hate crime. Whilst black on white hate crime happens much less frequently and may have less “social significance” (whatever that means to you or anyone else) the criminal actions and hate motivations behind those actions should not be ignored.

The female teacher who sexually molests a male student is treated differently than a male teacher on female student misconduct, both in the application of the law and in “social significance’.  The fact that the vast majority of teachers assaulting student are male does not make the actions of a female any less offensive.

An anti-abortionist was recently killed in what appears to be motivated by that persons beliefs.  This story has been all but ignored by the mainstream media in contrast to the deluge of coverage of the abortion doctor killing.  The crimes and motivations are the same and one cannot be considered any less offensive than the other (assuming all factual circumstances are as they appear).
There are the myriad

Anyone able to decipher that final sentence wins a cookie.

Myriad and the plural of it have been causing fits for me this week. I need to learn the usage of this word.